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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:17 am 
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Hello trainers,

I will switch things up for next season (2010): I will race different events and I will be switching to a 450 (the last 4 years I raced a 250 fourstroke).

I already have put a lot of research and thinking in my training schedules, mainly thanks to racerxvt. I periodize my training (off-, pre- and inseason) for both cardio and strength training. Etc.

Now I have one important question. Should I focus on different things with my training because I will be riding and racing a 450? I already am trying to gain some weight. But this question is regarding training methods i.e. more focus on strength training or more focussing on aerobic training, maybe more anaerobic training during the pre-season, or is there no need to adjust my training when moving up to the 450's?

As always, thanks for your time and advice.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:34 am 
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Riding styles will play an important role in how a rider transitions into the bigger bikes. I have seen athletes with a "flow style" transition in fairly easily where a rider who likes to throw the bike around will wear himself out trying to ride the 450 in the same fashion.
With that being said, I have all athletes work on strength in the off season, 250 or 450. Again, Racerx has a lot of information that will help guide you.
A couple of other areas are:
1. Make sure to find a good suspension company and test with them as much as possible. This is one area that a 450 will never feel 100% like a 250.
2. Do NOT try to add hp but DO try to smooth the power out so you can handle the bike.
3. I would suggest using a seat with a "step" or "bump" that will help you coming out of turns, once you feel confident in your abilities you can remove it.
Good luck with the new bike.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:43 pm 
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Hi Alan,

Thanks for your fast reply.

I expect my riding style to match well with a 450. I do not throw the bike around a lot and I do not like to rev the bike. That is mainly the reason I would like to step up to the 450 class. Just put it in third gear and let it pull through the corners, etc.

A step seat might be a good idea though.

Regards, Lars.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:35 pm 
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I think that once you start riding the 450 you will quickly find out what you need to work on (endurance, strength, technique, etc.). You seem to have a good understanding of your training so I recommend once you start riding the 450 pay close attention to how you feel and train your weaknesses. Good luck and keep us informed on how you do!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Thanks for all your replies.

Maybe a little early, but on the 1st of November I will race my last event for 2009. So I am already looking towards 2010. In the first week of November I will have a lactate threshold test done to determine my heart rate zones.

I will take two weeks ''off'' (taking it easy and do some other laid back events like cycling when I feel like it) to rest up and get motivated to start my off season training.

I gave my off season program from last year a little ''update'' and put this together:

Sunday: long mountainbike ride (aerobic base training)

Monday: recovery training (run or cycle)

Tuesday: strength training + a short (30 minutes) cardio workout

Wednesday: long slow distance run (aerobic base training)

Thursday: recovery training (run or cycle)

Friday: strength training + a short (30 minutes) cardio workout

Saturday: recovery training (run or cycle)

I added one more recovery training day because my internship will start in November; so that'll be 40 hour weeks for 21 weeks. Which means I will only be able to train in the evenings. And because I feel I need more time to recover from the strength training than the cardio workouts.

The focus will be on aerobic base training (slow long distance run and mountainbike ride) and on strength (completing all the different fases in strength training). I will do three weeks of base training followed by a recovery week. I will add stretching when possible.

Does it look good to you (I know it is hard for you to determine, but do you miss important things or .. )?

As always. Thanks for the help and reviewing all these training programs for the average Joe!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:43 pm 
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I have a lot of experience in this exact thing actually. I seem to always get riders as amateurs when they are contemplating the transition to include 450's in their program. In no particular order, here are my observations:

- 450s allow you to be "lazy." You don't have to worry so much about carrying momentum through turns because you have an abundance of power to clear the next obstacle. Riding a 450 a lot will make you slower on a 250. In elite amateurs I restrict 450 riding because of this reason. Also, in the career path, being the best on the 250 is more applicable since a pro usually wouldn't be on a 450 for a few seasons anyways. Most elite amateurs I work with almost exclusively train on a 250 and only break out the 450 the few weeks before a national. One caveat: in the amateurs (no matter what) the races are really sprint races and are very short so the specific muscular endurance of riding a 450 isn't so much a factor as it would be for a full 35 minute + pro moto.

- The once big thing about the 450 is increased torque. What this translates to physically on the bike is something called recruitment. If you have say 100 muscle fibers in your bicep and you accelerate, at that moment where your bike is trying to pull away from you, on a 250 maybe you have to turn on 50 of those fibers. Well on a 450 maybe you will have to instantly turn on 90 of them. This is recruitment, the number of fibers that you can activate over a short time period. So if you have enough absolute strength, the issue is really teaching yourself to recruit more fibers to fight the increased rate of momentum change due to not only the power of a 450 and increased weight of a 450. This is achieved through a phase of strength training called power endurance. Of course you could also increase you maximum strength and keep your recruitment the same but that would require a change in body mass which depending on who you are may or may not help.

- Keep your fundamentals intact. The things that make you fast on a 250 also make you fast on a 450. Yes you have to be smoother but the fundamentals need to stay the same. Often times the rider can "compensate" around the power of a 450 by disregarding the fundamentals that made them fast on a 250 to begin with. An example is the clutch. The clutch is used to help get to the power on a when the throttle is doing all it can on a 250. A lot of times when a rider gets on the 450 they start using the clutch to regulate the power of the bike instead of using the throttle. They try to ride the throttle like they do on the 250 but since there is way more power they may start to use the clutch to reduce the power instead of using the clutch like on a 250 to help get to the power. This is just one example of changing the fundamentals. The throttle should be used here instead of the clutch in this example. I am no riding instructor, this is just an observation I have made over the years. Eventually the rider has to regain the fundamentals on the 450 to progress further on that bike.

- Crashes are more violent on the 450. I have no scientific study to prove this but I just have seen that crashes on the 450 tend to be at a higher rate of speed due to the power. The bike also weighs more so the combined effect of higher speed plus the higher mass means the bike has more momentum by itself. This means the bike will transfer much more energy to the rider's body should the rider get hit by the bike. For whatever strange reason, my unofficial observations also show that 450's tend to follow the rider much more than 250's in the air if a rider goes over the front. All this bad news means even more reason to be strong and flexible should the worst happen.

- Body mass. Smaller riders always want to gain weight to ride the 450, presumably to combat the massive power increase of a 450. The main physical load of riding IMO is really you fighting/causing momentum changes in the bike/rider package. Your bike/body momentum wants to continue at the same speed/direction and you apply work to change this momentum by changing speed/direction. You have to apply force and adjust your bike/body mass to change the direction of the momentum. Increasing your body mass gives your body more momentum by itself so if you change your body momentum you have more effect on the body/bike package. But...it takes more work to move your own body momentum. So.....there is going to be a breakpoint where the increased work of moving your increased mass crosses the gain in momentum change due to your increased body mass. Don't forget the recruitment comment above! You just have to find this optimal balance. Increased strength through increased muscle cross sectional area vs. energy cost of moving increased body mass then add in the positive strength effect of increasing your recruitment; then take into account the added safety fo increased body mass! haha yup complicated!

OK those are some observations I am sure I can think of more but my computer is about to run out of batteries! Good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Location: Netherlands
Thanks for all the advice and tips. I'm sure I can put them to good use! ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Your plan for the off-season looks solid to me. Just remember to stay objective and don't be afraid to change things up during the strength training phase. Remember the objective of this phase is to recover from any nagging injuries, increase your overall strength, and broaden your aerobic base. Good luck and let us know how things work out.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Last week I started to follow this program (the month before I was training too, but more when I felt like it and less strict). I've added one complete rest day replacing one recovery training on Thursday and so far so good.

One thing I would like some advice on is if one strenght training day is enough to be able to feel the positive effects? The reason for this question is that:

a) I am not fond of strength training at all and enjoy long runs or cycles way more;
b) and I have the feeling my body has to recover from it too long (even in the MT fase).

I would like to replace one strenght training day by a long aerobic run or an aerobic row session. Please remember I'm just an amateur rider looking training to be able to complete my motos and for injury prevention.

Thanks in advance as always ;).


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:39 pm 
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Well, the short answer is, since you are just an amateur looking to be fit and injury free, I would say yes, you can drop the additional strength day. However, I DO NOT recommend it. If you were an aspiring pro, the answer would be hell, no. If you hate strength training so much that you skip the workout all together, then as an amateur I would say, ok, go ahead and skip it (as I give you a dirty look, lol).

Remember this....Strength training is a very key element to remaining injury free. One day of strength training is not nearly enough. Come on man, just do it. It is only for a few weeks. Certainly you can force yourself to strength train for a few weeks. Trust me on this, you will be much better off in the long run if you add that extra day of strength. You will run better, ride better, and feel better. Thanks and hope this helps!

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